FORUM ARCHIVES QUESTION: W.R.I.T.E .....A .....L.E.T.T.E.R .....T.O ..... T.H.E .....E.L.D.E.R.S Michael Farris Ignorance: October 11 2001, 12:18 AM It is a pity that such people conceive of our worship to God as if it is open to our own discretion as to how we do so. When we see people today blatantly concerning themselves with change for the sake of change, then we find disunity, not unity. I am reminded of the eternal principle seen in Nadab and Abihu who were smitten dead by God, not for failing to worship God, but for failing to do so according as he directed. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH DOING ACCORDING TO HIS WORD? I fail to see why so many have a problem with doing what they are told when it is so plain. Furthermore, a true elder/shepherd offers to the flock what the flock needs and not what the flock may desire. That is the reasoning behind elders in the first place, in that sheep stray and need true spiritual guidance. It is a pity that the spiritual leaders of the church have been too concerned with pleasing the flock and not with maintaining biblical purity in worship to God. Afterall, who is the audience of worship? And to whom are we praising? As we know the most truthful and spiritual worship is found in doing so according to God's Word for by the Word we find what is necessary for we are people of faith to offer back to God. We find people calling out for what is culturally acceptable when in reality the church of today ought to be influencing the culture instead of the other way around. Paul speaks of the DOCTRINE that we should adorn. Paul reminds Timothy not to stray from the teachings that have been given to him. We know the Bible is truth and hence, if we are to worship God according to SPIRIT AND TRUTH, then we must do so according to the Word. Madison has had such a rich heritage and today, it has been made a laughing stock. Oh for elders with visions of maintaining biblical allegiance and people who desire to be people of the BOOK and not mingle their cultural beliefs into worship in spirit and truth. ============================= Anonymous Untitled October 31 2001, 5:14 PM Why did Jimmy Sites Resign? Did the elders know that Jimmy wanted to institute the second service format when they brought him to Madison? When the second service started in the main auditorum, the place was packed, but attendance has greatly dropped, why? I thought they got what they wanted? Are the elders looking for a new preacher? This message has been edited on Oct 31, 2001 7:15 PM ============================= ConcernedMembers Forum Owner Looking for new preacher? October 31 2001, 7:17 PM I think the membership are looking for new Elders and a new preacher! ============================= Donnie Cruz Forum Owner Letter to the Elders December 28 2001, 5:47 PM July 20, 2001 The Elders and Keith Lancaster Madison Church of Christ 106 Gallatin Road N. Madison, Tennessee 37115 Dear Brethren: I had intended to write to the elders of the Madison church as soon as the new format of worship was instituted a few months ago. But due to a busy schedule, plus knowing that letters were already being sent by other members, and my being hopeful that there would be a decision to revert to the traditional worship format, I decided then not to write the letter. But since there has been a call recently for prayer and input and involvement towards formulating a “clear direction for the church family,” including format of worship, I feel encouraged to write this letter after all. I am also encouraged that (to my surprise) “He Leadeth Me,” a very touching and inspiring hymn, was sung during the services this past Sunday. Keith Lancaster will be receiving a copy of this letter because I personally feel that the congregational singing, under his direction and as a very significant segment of the worship service, is a major issue with me and probably with many others. Let me assure you that I fully recognize, as many people do, Keith’s enormous talent and that I have the utmost respect for such a special, God-given talent. But I have a few remarks on certain aspects of his and others’ role of leadership and on other matters associated with worship activities that I believe may be attributed to the apparent conflict and confusion that many members are experiencing. So, the intent here is to insure that brother Keith knows about these matters firsthand. Let me express my own personal viewpoints and observations: I believe there is that perception among members of the congregation, as well as among visitors and outsiders, that unless some workable directives from the eldership are in place soon, division in the church will be inevitable. It already appears that way to me, as well as to the public, as both services are being conducted differently in an attempt to appease everyone. It is agonizing to think that lack of unity is evident in this community of believers, in one of the largest (if not the largest) congregations of the Lord’s church in Madison, Tennessee. What are other congregations supposed to think of this “model” church as they seek guidance and advice for growth and expansion from it? I do not recall the worship format being an issue at Madison prior to the Sites-Lancaster era. It would seem conclusive that the introduction to certain new and different aspects in the worship service, under the guise of diversity, change, upgrade values, being accommodating and relevance to current needs or perhaps to the satisfaction of selfish ambitions by those desiring leadership roles, has contributed to the emergence of conflicts and issues.. That being the case, why has there been no attempt to discontinue such trouble-creating activities? I do not buy the idea that “new” or “different” is necessarily “better” or “for the better.” All I see is the Don Pinto/former Belmont church-like influences growing steadily at Madison. Before we know it, certain instruments will be gradually introduced, perhaps beginning with the tambourine and drums, for the purpose of aiding singing, just as clapping while singing, for example, is now “in style.” While there’s no proof that clapping hands during singing is unscriptural and while it is being considered as an expression of joyfulness and gladness by those that participate in it, I feel that it is a distraction to those that do not. There are only a few of those that are seemingly “children-oriented” songs (I know that we should be “as little children”) that are easily recognized by certain people as “action” songs, to which they clap their hands with great anticipation. It is a distraction to many people in attendance when certain young people who do not even sing are just there, prepared to clap to get attention. Sometimes clapping is not even in sync with the musical beat. It simply makes me feel as if I’m at a rock concert. There’s that argument that sincere worshipers ought to sing from the heart, that singing is more acceptable to God when songs are sung from memory. While it is not a requirement that we sing only those songs that are in our regular hymn books for singing to be scriptural and acceptable, I can’t help but notice that some of the new songs are affiliated with the Maranatha! Music. While “maranatha” is perhaps just as proper or has scriptural significance as the word “pentecostal,” for some reason, I can not help but associate these songs with the modern-day Charismatic Movement, rather than identify them with the intent and power of the Restoration Movement or with the uniqueness of the church spoken of in the New Testament. Some of the new songs in print are not in shaped notes, and some of us rely upon them for the tune. I feel that these songs that we are encouraged to memorize (and there’s nothing wrong with that) become less meaningful in time as we become more and more familiar with the words. It is also distracting when we recognize that the same supposedly memorized songs are sung from Sunday to Sunday, as if we’re supposed to sing only those songs every time. We should keep in mind that there are so many beautiful, meaningful, scriptural songs (hundreds of them in any song book) that are seldom sung or are yet to be learned. Why not teach or learn them instead? Besides, some of these “contemporary” songs lack the expression of reverence and are not worship-material, making references to the Lord as “You” and “You” and “You” and addressing God as some ordinary being like us. The praise team, while it is very nice and seemingly inspiring to “listen to” during singing, can be equated to having a non-instrumental choir that is “doing the singing for the congregation.” Obviously, many others not on the team have the tendency not to sing, but to listen to the group instead. The use of the microphones is not an issue with me personally, if the volume is moderate. The praise team concept would be less of an issue, I believe, if team members are not seated together but yet are able to provide the leadership needed - this way the team does not project that choir-like image. I personally think that the song leader’s interjection of certain phrases in between lines of a song is something we can do without and is somewhat a distraction. There’s somehow that expectation of someone who is going to “mess up” sometime. (Of course, Keith has not made that mistake and is not expected to make that kind of a mistake.) In addition, while it is not unscriptural, I am distracted when a leader exclaims “Thank you, Jesus!” immediately at the end of a lively song. Since it is that audible, there’s that automatic association with what transpires during gatherings by other religious groups. Can’t someone do this inaudibly, please? Not until it is clearly recognized as to when and how and by whom worship format became an issue, any attempt for resolution is likely to fail. We all realize that problems and issues of this nature must be dealt with very carefully and analyzed thoroughly and, above all, prayerfully. There should be no fear, if necessary, of subjecting or confronting any individual or party to take responsibility for initiating or causing problems. After all, which is more important: achieving personal satisfaction, praise and glory by certain individuals and groups of individuals OR maintaining peace, harmony and orderliness in congregational worship? I have just mentioned a number of factors that may be attributed to problems that now confront the church, and to some extent offered certain actions that may be taken to rectify such problems. But I would like also to suggest the following: The “new” and “contemporary” songs should not dominate the list of songs in the later worship service. There are many, many songs in the hymnal that are yet to be learned or are no longer sung. The perception or appearance of a division at Madison may be lessened or cease to exist when the list of songs is the same for both services. It must be recognized that certain people feel that they do not benefit as much as they should from the second worship service, but are rather distracted because of certain activities unacceptable to them and they are bound by scheduling restraints. The same may be true for others that attend the first service. It is beneficial to have a “praise team” so long as it does not give the impression of being or used as a substitute for or equivalent to a choir; rather that it provides singing leadership at various locations in the auditorium. If possible, avoid for the time being certain songs that encourage hand clapping that may distract others. There are many non-contemporary hymns that express life and happiness, that are lively and joyous. Newer songs should be added to the compilation of new songs; songs written in round notes may be modified or formatted to shaped notes for the needs of certain people. Eliminate certain aspects or activities or actions by those in leadership roles that may be misconstrued as or visibly associated with those exercised by denominational groups. Therefore, we can preserve the uniqueness and identity of the New Testament church. I’m certain that some of the suggestions above are already under consideration or being carried out. It is my hope that we all strive for understanding of one another’s needs and for adherence to the teachings of the New Testament - by direct command, by example or by necessary inference - so that we remain strong and united in Christ. In Christian love, Donnie Cruz P.O. Box 190524 Nashville, TN 37219 cc: Keith Lancaster ============================= Donnie Cruz E-Mail Sent to the Elders of Madison Church of Christ January 17 2002, 5:10 PM From: Cruz Donnie Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:30 PM To: 'Madison@Madisoncofc.org' Cc: Cruz Donnie Subject: Postmodern (Worship Facilitation) Model Adapted by the Madison Church Elders To the elders of the church at Madison: This website has finally convinced me that the Madison congregation has been/is now influenced by and is a participant of the "Third Wave" model of church image restructuring that is identifiably charismatic in many respects. More and more do I hear the following phrases: "worship facilitation minister," "worship facilitator pastor," "worship leader," "praise team," "worship minister," "Christian singers," "musical worship team," etc. Note also the following references to these churches, leaders, etc.: Madison Church (of Christ) Hendersonville Community Church Hendersonville Church of Christ Community Church Woodmont Hills (Church of Christ) David Lipscomb campus Belmont Church Rubel Shelly Max Lucado and please visit: www.piney.com/WinWillCrk.html. Thank you for your attention, Donnie C. Cruz ============================= Donnie Cruz Forum Owner "Get Over It!" Is NOT the Solution; Only the Elders Can Stop the Disruption by the "C January 21 2002, 6:15 PM "Get Over It!" Is NOT the Solution; Only the Elders Can Stop the Disruption by the "Change Agents" -- NOW! Note: This letter has already been sent to each of the elders of the church of Christ at Madison, as well as to other individuals who needed to be informed. By publishing this letter, it is my hope and prayer that some responsible action will be taken by the shepherds of this body of believers to restore what Madison used to be and have ... before it is too late! The attached htlm file is below: ===================================================== Note from the moderator at ConcernedMembers.com This email was received today. This is a very powerful letter, and we felt that you should be made aware of it immediately. Because of it's formatting and size, it could not be posted in the forum under "Write a Letter To The Elders". However a link to the letter will be in the forum. The letter has been posted on the world wide web for everyone at the below link; http://www.concernedmembers.com/letter/theelders.htm Printable Version; http://www.piney.com/DonnieCruzLet.html Please feel free to make multiple copies and take them to church with you Sunday. Thank You ConcernedMembers This message has been edited on Jan 21, 2002 9:04 PM This message has been edited on Jan 21, 2002 7:14 PM ============================= Joe McKnight Are you ready yet? January 26 2002, 4:17 AM Dear Brothers (the Madison Elders): I was talking to someone the other day and your trail came up and it brought you to mind. O Madison, Madison thou that killest the prophets and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered the children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the LORD. Just wanted to check in, to ask if your ready yet? It hurts my heart to see the dieing stages that you are taking Madison church of Christ through, but I know from my own experences that it is good to get sick once in awhile. I hope and pray you will not take much longer to turn to Christ so He can heal you, but most importantly heal your flock. Pride is such an ugly thing, and it is the hardest sin to be heal of. Pride is a catch 22, You really have to go to bedrock before you will look up. When it is the Elders that are in need of pride curing trails there are a bunch of chicks that have to die. Again I pray it will not be much longer before your ready. So we can start cleaning up your house and ask Christ to restore the chicks that have died on your watch. to God be the Glory Joe McKnight ============================= Ken Laney To the Elders of the Madison Church of Christ from a brother February 7 2002, 12:00 PM Sirs, assuming as stated that each of you will recieve a copy of such messages, let me first say I understand local automony and respect it. I am not, and would not try to "shepherd your flock". Please try to understand that for decades many of us have looked to Madison as a beacon of congregational success, and we are devasted by the recent circumstances. I have and would believe others have tried to contact you through your madisoncoc.org website regarding direction in this matter, but only silence. Prehaps you believe that is the best way to approach this matter. If so, so be it. Many of us who try to contact you, do so because we love the Lord and love His Church, and love the Madison brethren. Even though I (and likely others)have read with interest and concern the content of the concerned members website, does not mean we have or will take sides. I can not believe that the Lord in anyway can be pleased with the venom flowing from both sides. If so, I have miss understood the scriptures and preached the wrong message for 25 years. I have little expectations, realizing my note will probably end up unread in "file 13", but so many of us do care. I pray for all brethren everywhere, as I have great concerns about where we are now and where the Lord's Church is going to be 25 years from now. Will we still proudly wear the name of Christ? ============================= charles horton very concerned April 12 2002, 11:31 PM elders and jimmy sites:it concerns me that you no longer want to stay with the truth.saddleback is very destructive.i hope you all will repent and go back to the bible for your pattern of church structure,and not willow creek,and saddleback.