FORUM ARCHIVES QUESTION: A_N_N_O_U_N_C_E_M_E_N_T_S Unbelievable Unbelievable October 30 2001, 8:38 PM For you who hold "the way we used to do it" above all else, whatever happened to church autonomy. I have always had impressed on me that congregational autonomy is one of the hallmarks of the churches of Christ. You may not think you're violating that with your direct mailing. I do, and my opinion is just as unimportant as yours. The links to which you will go to see that you get your way are despicable. Know and know well that you are hurting and destroying people and that no truth that you support can justify your hatefulness and complete disregard for the truth the Bible applies to relationships. ================================ Unidentified Response To Announcement of Continued Efforts to ????? October 31 2001, 11:45 PM You say, "Our Job Is Not Over!" I wonder if some of you feel defeated. The word was that it would be settled when you took over the pulpit two Sundays ago. What happened? Wasn't the "hijacking" successful? Seems like there was too many hanging chads in that "vote count". You ask if things would have been different if you had been told a year or so ago. yes, perhaps we would have been into the third phase of this campaign by now and some of the suffering would have been over. Although I doubt if you would have acted any different. You kept saying you wanted the elders to say something,"Tell us what is going to happen", I kept hearing everytime I turned around. Then, the elders gave us their decision and you already had your reply written, NO! NO! NO! We will not abide by their decision; even though you were urged to even by those elders who had been in opposition during the discussion. At every turn you have rebelled against every effort these men have made. I challenge you to show one time you have cooperated with their request during this time. Now we are in a situation addressed in; Ezekiel 33:1-6. You say. "We have become the "Watchman" sounds like you may have just appointed yourself the "elders" or better yet the "Pope" over all the churches and as soon as you straighten out Madison, you intend to proceed on to the whole world. And you have the nerve to talk about someone taking too much authority to themselves. I reecall a brother who took such a task to himself a few years ago. He had a paper called "Contending for the faith". He was successful in spreading more discord, suspicion and dis-trust among our brotherhood than anyone I know of in my lifetime. Do you intend to follow the same format? If you do, at least you would be doing it like some who have gone before. No one could accuse you of being a change agent. The book you have being printed; I wonder if you have the final chapter already written. Sounds like you didn't have to wait for the facts to all unfold, you know what it will be. One thing for sure, keep doing the same thing and you will get the same results. A good Methodist lady said to me one day, "Satan don't have to worry about the church of Christ, you have some of your own who can tear up more churches than the rest of you can build." Sorry to say, she may be right. Seems every time a church in our brotherhood starts to grow, we have some who consider it their calling to tear it down. So, you are going to furnish the book FREE! I wonder if you are going to use the contribution money the group has been witholding to pay for it. Just wondering. Guess that is between you and the Lord and none of anyones business. Yes, the Madison church has been a beacon for good. But with your help, using the newspapers etc., and your web site you should be successful in giving it a bad reputation before you die. I have a little warning for you. You are loosing ground. The more you talk, the more people are seeing you for what you really are. More and more people are thinking for themselves and will not swallow hook, line and sinker all of your wild accusations. Someone said, "just give them enough rope and they will hang themselves". With this last round the rope is getting tighter and tighter. You said you were repenting, I sure hope you do before its too late. I don't care if you print this or not. Just read it and try to let a little of it sink in. You may think I have hit below the belt but I am just trying to get your attention. This message has been edited on Nov 3, 2001 7:10 PM ================================ brad Your NUTS !! November 2 2001, 10:38 AM Leave Madison and the other churches that are trying to reach lost people alone. Just go quietly with all of your friends to a church where you don't have to do anything but sit around and talk about being the only ones doing "church" right. People who have not been changed on the inside by Jesus, are the people who must make rules to go by and follow to make themselves feel better. You are using God's word incorrectly to make your points and you are listening to people who got there degrees from Memphis school of preaching and are jealous of big churches and our universities. There is nothing wrong with tradition, there is something wrong with your heart condition. I wish Madison the best. ================================ Ken Harsh conclusion February 5 2002, 6:33 AM I am new to this controversy at Madison and have tried as resources would allow to find out from "both sides" some of the things that happened or are happening. The thing that has disturbed me the most in this whole matter is some of the "venom" that members of the church have expressed. I think that your statement concerning people from schools of preaching in leiu of large church's and universities dripped with such venom. Before you get on my case, I am a graduate of one of our "big" brotherhood universities and not a "hick" for some school preaching as your assessment seems to be. You may be a PHD or whatever, but it is a terrible indictment to lump lowly school of preaching people to some sort of lesser specie.I have not ties to schools of preaching either, but I still think your judgement is harsh and arrogant. Some of the most disappointing people I have ever followed in my life have been "advanced degreed" men from our big universities. Yet some of the best workers, speakers, etc. I have ever known have been lowly "school of preaching products." I could be wrong but I was not aware that Harding (my school), Abilene, Pepperdine, Lipscomb, etc. have a monopoly on truth and unless you are a "higher learner" from these schools you can not know right and wrong. It is my understanding that the Bible is written on a lowly "1st or 2nd degree level." If so it does not require a degree for a "university" to know and preach truth. Maybe your statement, like a lot of statements all of us make was just one on the "spur of the moment'. However if not, you need to give thought to the fact that your statement is as unloving as you seem to indicate you think some of the Madison "fueders" are. ================================ Kevin Hamm You are not alone January 14 2002, 1:48 PM I am not a member of Madison Church of Christ, but we are experiencing the same problems at Hillcrest Church of Christ in Abilene, TX. The parallels between the timeline of change at your church and our church are alarming. I decided to do some research. I began by reading the books "The Purpose Driven Church" (since we became a purpose driven church 3 years ago) and "Transitioning: Leading Your Church Through Change" (since it seemed to be the guidebook for this church growth movement). While part of their basis is rooted in Scripture (the Old Testament), most is not. I urge all who wish to know the truth to read these two books along with "Navigating the Winds of Change" by Lynn Anderson, "Experiencing God" by Henry T. Blackaby and Claude V. King, "They Smell Like Sheep" by Lynn Anderson and "Spiritual Leadership" by Blackaby. They are real eye-openers. You should be able to find these books at your local christian college. Also, I would urge everyone to read the one Book that we should be using as a guide, The Bible, and discover the differences in the new versions (NIV, ASV, KJV). There is a website that contains many versions for reference at http://unbound.biola.edu/ "Some of you yourselves will distort the truth in order to draw a following." (Acts 20:30) "Don't be teamed with those who do not love the Lord, for what do the people of God have in common with the people of sin?" (2 Cor 6:14) My prayers are with you, Kevin